Steam Integration at 2KM

[Titavius]

There will be no direct links to 2KM in this post. 2KM will be referenced by name only.

Hi,

Just wanted to share a little information about Steams Web API, to help you understand what it is, and why it’s used at 2KM. I understand a lot of people are finding it "inconvenient" or an "invasion of privacy". Honestly, there's no use telling me, or anyone else that. If this is how you feel about it, you need to inform Steam. You can contact them via email to leave feedback.

Steam themselves are actively encouraging communities such as ours to adopt Steam integration as a way to “Check if a user owns a particular application”. Yes, it’s a piracy deterrent. No, it isn’t an invasion of your privacy.

I understand that some people are going to want to try and justify piracy in some capacity. I get it, everybody’s circumstances are different. Some people can afford a legitimate copy of the game, some cannot. That’s life, yada yada.

Again, if anybody has any legitimate concerns, please contact Steam. They are the ones who handle your information. They are responsible for protecting your data, Not 2KM. 2KM cannot legally access sensitive information. Hypothetically, even if we’d wanted to access your sensitive information, there is no way obtain it. Steam simply handles sign in requests and helps us verify you as a legit user.

There are also certain standards and guidelines that our website has to adhere to in order to even exist in its current state; ie. (W3C, WCAG). This is partly why we introduced a new system. We spent several weeks refining the site so as to ensure its validity.

Please put away your tinfoil hats. They really aren’t necessary.

Thanks for reading.

 

Steam Web API Documentation:

https://steamcommunity.com/dev

https://partner.steamgames.com/doc/webapi_overview

Steams Privacy Policy Agreement:

https://store.steampowered.com/privacy_agreement/

The benefits of APIs:

https://www.jisc.ac.uk/guides/the-advantage-of-apis

What APIs Are and Why They’re Important?

https://readwrite.com/2013/09/19/api-defined/

Data Protection Legislation:

https://iclg.com/practice-areas/data-protection-laws-and-regulations/usa

[DrJoeyMagnum]

Opened for discussion, please keep it civil  

[Cave Waverider]

Personally, I find Steam verification via Steam's official OpenID API is a great idea and I'd love to see similar measures to be used for PC Modding/Download sections here on Smacktalks to deter pirates in the future. The PC version is available on Steam only, and thus the steam game check is an elegant way to verify the game a user wishes to download mods for is actually owned by that user.

One interesting thing to note is that in such a case you only have to set your Steam profile to public for the time of linking/synchronization/verification. The games relevant for the downloads on the site will be checked for ownership on steam and registered to your account on the site. Once your games are checked/your profile is synchronized (you can check if you can download something relevant to be sure the synchronization was successful), you can set your Steam profile (or the parts of the profile pertaining to which games you own) back to Friends only or public if you prefer that. It'll usually only take a couple of seconds. Note that you'll have to set it to public again whenever you add a new game that you wish to download mods for (for example next year, when the next WWE game is released). So this might alleviate some of the worries for those that prefer to keep their Steam profile visible for friends only or completely private, I know it does for myself.

[ObsoleteRipZz]

I do think there's definitely a lack of understanding for the Steam API for sure. That API was created By Steam and legally only allowed to provide information from the public profile available on the steam site. Places like GarrysMods have used the same thing for a very long time. They have over 190k registered users with no issues at all. As far as what games the actual site stores on it's server when the server is read this is what it looks like 

 

As you can see it doesn't keep your name, personal information or additional games stored on the website's server. Your SteamID is already public. Whenever you enter a multiplayer server you can pull up a person's SteamID within the command console.

[brienj]

My children use my profile, because Steam doesn't have the smarts to do things like Xbox Live, where your children have their own separate accounts, yet still have all the perks and games of the main parent account.  Their stuff on their Xbox Live accounts is private, mine is public, you can't do that on Steam.  If I make my profile public, then my kids are made public.  This is what nobody is understanding.  Plus, I don't play any game online on Steam, only on Xbox Live, everybody cheats on PC, I only play games like Hitman online, where there are no opponents.  I know I'm not the only person with a similar situation.  It's not just MY privacy, it's my underage children.

Edited October 29, 2018 by brienj

[Cave Waverider]

6 hours ago, brienj said:

My children use my profile, because Steam doesn't have the smarts to do things like Xbox Live, where your children have their own separate accounts, yet still have all the perks and games of the main parent account.  Their stuff on their Xbox Live accounts is private, mine is public, you can't do that on Steam.  If I make my profile public, then my kids are made public.  This is what nobody is understanding.  Plus, I don't play any game online on Steam, only on Xbox Live, everybody cheats on PC, I only play games like Hitman online, where there are no opponents.  I know I'm not the only person with a similar situation.  It's not just MY privacy, it's my underage children.

I do understand your sentiment.

Note, however, that you can indeed have separate Steam accounts for your children and share your games with them via Steam Family Sharing.

Using this feature, you can create separate account(s) for your children and keep them private. Then use Steam Family Sharing feature (in Steam, click on Steam->Settings->Family. Tick "Authorize Library Sharing on this computer", then select which accounts to share your game library with (You might have to have logged in those accounts on that very computer once before doing this for them to show up). You can share your library with up to five accounts, you can revoke and reinstate the sharing per account any time, too, which i sneat if you want to "punish" one of your kids and not allow them to play for a certain amount of time until grades in school get better, for example. You're then able to have your own account set to public (which you only have to set public for a couple of seconds for authorization/Steam Link anyhow) and nobody will be able to see  what your children are playing or doing on their private account(s). Only allow your children to use their own accounts, of course.

[brienj]

2 hours ago, Cave Waverider said:

I do understand your sentiment.

Note, however, that you can indeed have separate Steam accounts for your children and share your games with them via Steam Family Sharing.

Using this feature, you can create separate account(s) for your children and keep them private. Then use Steam Family Sharing feature (in Steam, click on Steam->Settings->Family. Tick "Authorize Library Sharing on this computer", then select which accounts to share your game library with (You might have to have logged in those accounts on that very computer once before doing this for them to show up). You can share your library with up to five accounts, you can revoke and reinstate the sharing per account any time, too, which i sneat if you want to "punish" one of your kids and not allow them to play for a certain amount of time until grades in school get better, for example. You're then able to have your own account set to public (which you only have to set public for a couple of seconds for authorization/Steam Link anyhow) and nobody will be able to see  what your children are playing or doing on their private account(s). Only allow your children to use their own accounts, of course.

Checked it out before, and we had issues where all three children can't play Undertale at the same time on their computer for example.  Only one child at a time can play.  However, using my account, they can all play at the same time on their computers.  Once they remove the limit of one computer at a time playing a game, that can be done.  There were some other specific reasons I can't quite remember at this time, because even my wife uses my account.  I was going to check out and see if a lot of the problems we had before have been fixed, just haven't done it yet.

Edited October 29, 2018 by brienj

[The Anti Source]

9 hours ago, brienj said:

My children use my profile, because Steam doesn't have the smarts to do things like Xbox Live, where your children have their own separate accounts, yet still have all the perks and games of the main parent account.  Their stuff on their Xbox Live accounts is private, mine is public, you can't do that on Steam.  If I make my profile public, then my kids are made public.  This is what nobody is understanding.  Plus, I don't play any game online on Steam, only on Xbox Live, everybody cheats on PC, I only play games like Hitman online, where there are no opponents.  I know I'm not the only person with a similar situation.  It's not just MY privacy, it's my underage children.

I'd love to hear how you think your children are exposed in any capacity by Steam verifying that a game is in your library on your account. That's quite the narrative you're painting that your children are somehow at risk, but it's erroneous at best. There's literally no correlation between your children's privacy and the Steam API verifying a game in your account.

Edited October 29, 2018 by The Anti Source

[brienj]

18 minutes ago, The Anti Source said:

I'd love to hear how you think your children are exposed in any capacity by Steam verifying that a game is in your library on your account. That's quite the narrative you're painting that your children are somehow at risk, but it's erroneous at best.

Because my profile has to then be made public.  Look, I really don't care if I can download the mods there or not, just trying to point out how flawed the system is, because it's not going to prevent what they want to prevent.  You can even hack it so it says you have whatever game you want it to say is in your account.  It's not stopping any "pirates" from getting their mods.  They are just hurting themselves in the long run.  There is a reason that Smacktalks does no such thing, and why they are the number one result when Googling for WWE 2K mods, whereas you are hard pressed to find 2KModz in the same search result.  Just saying ...

The same thing happened to one of my old stomping grounds, Xentax.  It used to be the premiere place to get any game mods, but then they started worrying about the same type things, and now they are lost in obscurity.

Edited October 29, 2018 by brienj

[Cave Waverider]

1 hour ago, brienj said:

Checked it out before, and we had issues where all three children can't play Undertale at the same time on their computer for example.  Only one child at a time can play.  However, using my account, they can all play at the same time on their computers.  Once they remove the limit of one computer at a time playing a game, that can be done.  There were some other specific reasons I can't quite remember at this time, because even my wife uses my account.  I was going to check out and see if a lot of the problems we had before have been fixed, just haven't done it yet.

You can't play the same game more than once at the same time even with one account, unless you set Steam to offline mode on other computers. When Steam is in offline mode, the kids aren't exposed to the internet anyway, so in that case it is safe for them to use your account, even if it's public. So you could block Steam from going online via firewall on their computers to keep them "safe".

Besides, there isn't all that much you can see in someone's public Steam profile anyway, except which games you own and play as well as any information you choose to share yourself, which I'd assume isn't anything. Where any potential danger comes from is likely the Steam friends social/chat feature (same as with other social media and chat types), which I'd recommend disabling for your kids anyhow. Or the comments feature, perhaps, which you can disable no matter if the profile is public or not.

Once again, if a system such as is the topic of this discussion thread was in place, you could only turn your Steam profile (or rather your games list) public for a couple of seconds in such a verification case, sync your steam link/account and set it back to private right after. You could do it at night when your kids aren't playing, without anybody being "exposed" to anything and leave your account private thereafter. The linked account only gets access to the steam display name (not account name), 

PS.: There is also something called "Steam family view" where you can set which Steam features your kids can use, including your online profile among other things.

PPS.: Undertale is also available on GOG.com DRM free, you can install it on all your childrens PCs without having to worry about any Steam stuff. I suggest always getting the GOG version before a Steam version if privacy is a concern to you.

[The Anti Source]

Just now, brienj said:

Because my profile has to then be made public.  Look, I really don't care if I can download the mods there or not, just trying to point out how flawed the system is, because it's not going to prevent what they want to prevent.  You can even hack it so it says you have whatever game you want it to say is in your account.  It's not stopping any "pirates" from getting their mods.  They are just hurting themselves in the long run.  There is a reason that Smacktalks does no such thing, and why they are the number one result when Googling for WWE 2K mods, whereas you are hard pressed to find 2KModz in the same search result.  Just saying ...

You're saying it's public as if you automatically forfeit all your personal information to the internet or something. It's fear mongering at best.

How do you know it's not stopping any pirates? You don't. Even if it were to deter a small amount of pirates, it's still doing its job.

You aren't being consistent at all with your reasoning. I asked how your kids are exposed and you're implying that 2KModz isn't as popular because of a newly implemented Steam integration. That's utterly ridiculous. You clearly have some sort of underlying issues going on, but you really shouldn't be trying to convince anyone that a system to deter piracy is somehow bad and dangerous for anyone to use.

[brienj]

2 minutes ago, The Anti Source said:

You're saying it's public as if you automatically forfeit all your personal information to the internet or something. It's fear mongering at best.

How do you know it's not stopping any pirates? You don't. Even if it were to deter a small amount of pirates, it's still doing its job.

You aren't being consistent at all with your reasoning. I asked how your kids are exposed and you're implying that 2KModz isn't as popular because of a newly implemented Steam integration. That's utterly ridiculous. You clearly have some sort of underlying issues going on, but you really shouldn't be trying to convince anyone that a system to deter piracy is somehow bad and dangerous for anyone to use.

It's already not working for some legit people who own the game, and that's just going to make those people look elsewhere to find the mods through other means.  As I've stated multiple times, I personally do not care what the site does, that is their own decision, I once had the same attitude, and it hurt a lot of the stuff I did, and there is a ton of animosity towards me because of the attitude I had about pirates and people cheating online.  I should have left all the piracy and cheating shit to the game makers to fix themselves.  Being a white knight, especially in the modding and hacking community, certainly gets you no gold stars, and will just create a ton of hate.  Most everyone that it is going to "hurt", can easily bypass any of the protection put in, and they will continue to share everything behind closed doors, and laugh at all the honest people that are getting hurt by this.

[The Anti Source]

1 minute ago, brienj said:

It's already not working for some legit people who own the game, and that's just going to make those people look elsewhere to find the mods through other means.  As I've stated multiple times, I personally do not care what the site does, that is their own decision, I once had the same attitude, and it hurt a lot of the stuff I did, and there is a ton of animosity towards me because of the attitude I had about pirates and people cheating online.  I should have left all the piracy and cheating shit to the game makers to fix themselves.  Being a white knight, especially in the modding and hacking community, certainly gets you no gold stars, and will just create a ton of hate.  Most everyone that it is going to "hurt", can easily bypass any of the protection put in, and they will continue to share everything behind closed doors, and laugh at all the honest people that are getting hurt by this.

Sure, whatever you say pal. You already outted yourself. It's not about you or your kids privacy (that isn't exposed to begin with). You have a chip on your shoulder. That's cool too. You're free to choose what you do or don't like, but again, trying to fear monger people into not using a feature or site is asinine. You can paint whatever narratives you want, but your ulterior motive has been noted. Good day to you.

[brienj]

6 minutes ago, The Anti Source said:

Sure, whatever you say pal. You already outted yourself. It's not about you or your kids privacy (that isn't exposed to begin with). You have a chip on your shoulder. That's cool too. You're free to choose what you do or don't like, but again, trying to fear monger people into not using a feature or site is asinine. You can paint whatever narratives you want, but your ulterior motive has been noted. Good day to you.

What?  Trying to help others not make the same mistakes is having a chip on my shoulder?  I don't follow, or maybe you aren't following me.

And yes, it was mainly about not making my Steam profile public, which I still haven't done, and not going to do, there are a ton of reasons I am not going to, but most people not in my shoes would understand.  Also, as stated several times, I don't care if I can get any of the mods by making my profile public or not, it's not needed.

Edited October 29, 2018 by brienj

[The Anti Source]

4 minutes ago, brienj said:

What?  Trying to help others not make the same mistakes is having a chip on my shoulder?  I don't follow, or maybe you aren't following me.

You made the mistake of logging into Steam via 2KM? Because that's what this topic is about. Not your kids, not about how much more popular ST is than 2KM, and not about how trivial you think combating piracy is (all things you've argued). So unless you've logged into Steam via 2KM and something bad happened to you, then all that other nonsense is pure conjecture. Let them do their thing and stop trying so hard to convince everyone it's a bad idea and dangerous. Now again, good day.

[brienj]

13 minutes ago, The Anti Source said:

You made the mistake of logging into Steam via 2KM? Because that's what this topic is about. Not your kids, not about how much more popular ST is than 2KM, and not about how trivial you think combating piracy is (all things you've argued). So unless you've logged into Steam via 2KM and something bad happened to you, then all that other nonsense is pure conjecture. Let them do their thing and stop trying so hard to convince everyone it's a bad idea and dangerous. Now again, good day.

No, I actually never did log into their site.  I don't need to.  I don't know where you are getting that from.  LOL

I'm just trying to share personal experience on this.  I know that people think they are doing a good thing, but it's just going to end up hurting in the long run.  If they don't care that people are just going to go other places, that's cool.

Edited October 29, 2018 by brienj

[Titavius]

First off, apologies for the thread being locked initially. To be honest, I didn’t really think there was much to discuss, as the objective of this post was to provide information. It was to be used as a point of reference for individuals with legitimate concerns about the Steam API and what it does.

As I tried to explain, nobody at 2KM is really all that equipped to handle queries with regards to the integrity of the API, how it handles your data, and whether it’s safe to use it. Your first port of call for any questions like that should be Steam. If you have any concerns with regards to the safety of the people with access to your account, Steam are the ones to address them to.

All we can do is the same thing that I’m sure you’re quite capable of doing yourself. Researching the API, reading through Steams policies and coming to your own safe conclusions. Steam are offering a service, we are using said service, that’s where our relationship ends.

Having read through the comments, I can see that it’s only yourself with any legitimate concerns. That’s fine, I appreciate that your circumstances may be different, as I’m sure there are others with concerns similar to your own.

It’s like that old adage, “you can’t please everyone”, and it’s certainly true of this community. Unfortunately, though Brien, you seem to be in a small minority of people with a unique concern that we just can’t do anything about. And I have to say, you’re the first person to address this concern. I’m not quite sure why you feel the need to address it in the way that you have, especially as somebody with no intention of using our site, but that’s your prerogative.

Also, I have to say, I do consider your comparisons between Smacktalks and 2KM and the differences in popularity to be quite uninformed, and frankly a little ignorant. You realise that 2KM has only been a thing for a little over a month, with our current system having only been put in place just over a week ago? In the scheme of things, we’re still relativity ‘up start’, and will need time to grow before any real comparisons can be drawn. Having said that though, we have grown quite sizably in the short time that the site has been active, with feedback, besides your own, being generally positive. 

If you want to talk about your concerns in more depth, I'm happy for you to shoot me a dm or something. I say this, as I believe that your concern is something that relates only to a small minority of people, and should be addressed as such. 

Edited October 29, 2018 by Titavius

[ObsoleteRipZz]

Here's the thing and I really feel like with discussions like this there should be some type of research done first rather than attempting to fight something for a side that doesn't exist.

 

If you go to Garrysmods, those guys have 190,000 registered users using just the steam API like we are using. It doesnt seem like its hindered their growth. Theres quite a few others as well. The only ones who have had issues are the ones who don't own the game or the forgot to temporarily make their profile viewable for the site to read. In which we walk them through and they were set. I can count on one hand of the people who needed that. Last I checked in 2 weeks the site was just below 400 registered members and for there to be 5 maybe 6 people who needed help with the sync process is a damn good number. 

 

If the system doesn't work for you that's fine. We can't make everyone happy 100% of the time but if the majority is okay with it then we're cool with that. All in all there's multiple avenues you'll be able to acquire mods like you stated before. Like I told you on Twitter we received numerous warnings through back channels about guys charging for mods and piracy so we took a step to protect the community. You've been gone 4 years so I'm sure there's quite a bit you have missed out on and that's fine as well. As I said before if u come around to the idea you are ALWAYS welcome to join, if you don't that's cool as well.

[Jax789]

Lol, so mods just delete posts they don't like? Good to see that there's no point bothering with discussion on this site then.

Edited October 29, 2018 by Jax789

[DrJoeyMagnum]

6 minutes ago, Jax789 said:

Lol, so mods just delete posts they don't like? Good to see that there's no point bothering with discussion on this site then.

Or maybe we felt it was getting a tad bit heated 

[pozzum]

For myself to weigh in I think 2km is doing a bunch of cool stuff.  I've been talking to @SimplyRipZz a fair amount a few backend adjustments that I would hope would be possible that doesn't hinder any of the stated goals of 2km.