I found how some people steal other people's caws online.

June 16, 2018

38 minutes ago, cdiebold1 said:

Liger is a part of the community. If it is solely his business, he wouldn't post here. He wouldn't post at caws.ws. "His business" became everyone else's business when he posted up his creations and enjoyed the continued support of the community or when he enjoyed ranking up in game because of the community's support. You're arguing that it's his choice to make when nobody said or even implied that it wasn't. In fact, I specifically said it was his choice. I also said that we didn't have to agree with it and assholes like you couldn't shame people like us into it either.

Forced labor camps? Nice stretch, Dhalsim.

He doesn't owe anyone anything but quitting doesn't fix any of the problems that make him want to quit either, does it? No? Well then it's an extremely valid position to hold. Soapboxing this idea that nobody is ever allowed to disagree with reputable creators is what makes this community toxic. It's clique creating tribalism. Your CAW skill doesn't preclude you from differing opinions or criticism.

If you don't like it, you don't have to read it -- but I'm going to say what I want regardless of how many "likes" it gets me on here because once again, we're adults here and we're free to do so. CAW creators are not infants that need to be coddled and if someone saying something you don't agree with is too much for you to handle, perhaps you should take a break from the internet.

I never called the guy an asshole. I never said he was crying like a baby (not to my recollection, but feel free to quote me if I did). I said I understood being mad about it and I said he had the right to. It's very easy to relate to. But the main point I made was that quitting wasn't the answer. Your problem here is that you attempted to put what Jai said and what I said into a single box but generalizations and vague sweeping statements just to beat your chest over "standing up for the CAW creators" doesn't work here. I'm only accountable for what I said. Not what Jai said. Not what false narrative you're pushing with paraphrased tripe.

Try try again.

1. It IS his business, as it's HIS choice, not anyone else's. Simply because he engages here doesn't mean he forgoes his right to be an individual. This is a community. The choice to be a part of it, is that, a choice. The choice to no longer contribute, is that, a choice. I was born in a city. I can choose to stay or leave. I choose to have a job, make friends, attend community functions, places of worship or businesses. Just because I choose to do so, doesn't mean at any point I can't stop for any reason, or no reason at all. Individuals make their own choices, people can try and influence them, but it's still up to that person, unless they're a child who hasn't reached the point of being able to yet. I can move to a completely different country and stay. I could leave and come back. I have that freedom, the same as Liger does.

2. I didn't say you had to agree with anyone (Again, I told you to show me where I did, but you haven't yet, cause I didn't), but there were people treating Liger with disrespect because he made a personal choice to quit. Like he wronged them in some way because he owed them sticking around regardless. No one should feel that they HAVE to do something they don't want simply cause someone else thinks your choice is stupid or wrong. There should be a respect level there that wasn't. That was my whole point. You wanna try and talk Liger into staying, you don't talk down to or belittle his points or gripes, you address them, try and respect him and respect whatever conclusion he reaches, not turn belligerent because he's not bending to your will.

3. I've known Jeff a while, and YES, he is prone to flying off the handle. He gets upset easily and tends to say the wrong thing. I don't feel that's any disrespect to Jeff. It's why I unfollowed him on twitter. I don't not like him. I just don't like seeing him go off on someone over nothing.

4. No, quitting DOES fix his problem. No uploading means no stealing. No getting the game means no putting work in and being stolen from. It fixed ALL his problems. No heartbreak, no tension, no nothing. Because it doesn't doesn't fix it for everyone else to where he still creates and uploads for everyone else to use, does not equate to not fixing his problem.

5. Maybe if the sense of entitlement and ego didn't permeate through the whole community, people might have a better time and WANNA share regardless of having their work stolen. Maybe if CAW creators didn't act like someone leaving the site was a betrayal, or once they become mods that they're god and can do whatever they want. Look at CAWS.ws as an example.

6. I never said you did. I said Jeff was treating like shit over nothing and didn't need to go I tirade he went on against him. That he was saying shit that was meant to hurt Liger, that he was just hurting himself with too, which he apologized for a few posts above this. Nothing more.

Then you chimed in.

June 16, 2018

1. For the third time, nobody said he didn't have the choice or he had no right to it, for fuck's sake. Why do you keep pushing that as a bullet point? He has the right. Nobody is able to deny him the ability to just quit. Nobody said they could. We said we didn't agree with it. If you are a member of a community and then you say "Fuck the rest of you" and quit because someone outside of the community stole from you, you need to grow the hell up. Quitting doesn't solve the issue that's inspiring him to quit.

2. I have not honestly witnessed any "disrespect" for Liger in this thread. Not by me and not by anyone else. Opinions you disagree with =/= disrespect. The closest thing that could even resemble being remotely close to disrespect would be Jai having said that Liger needs to not act like this is a job and that money is coming out of his pocket because someone stole from him or even that he/people cry too much over this or are too sensitive. Which was also mirrored in essence by people like Bhangra who said "It happens, call it out, keep on trucking", paraphrased of course. It seems for some reason that you feel the need to stick up for a grown adult who is quite capable of replying to differing opinions on his own. You're taking offense on behalf of someone else who is CHOOSING not to engage anyone in the thread that HE created.

3. I've known Jeff as long as you or any other. Him being an abrasive twat is the reason why he's no longer a member of the WLF forums. That's just how he is though. I am exactly the same way. Him and I have beefed plenty of times in the past but when you come into a thread knowing the personality someone else has and accepting them for who they are and how they approach things lessens the chance that you'll actually be offended or triggered by what they say. That doesn't mean that you need to cape for other people, especially when what you're trying to cape on is either not applicable but is instead a perception issue on your end. You equate my disappointment and my criticism of Liger's choices and actions as disrespect. One could perceive what I've said as a pep talk. "Yeah, you took a hit bro. Brush it off and get back in the game".

4. Quitting does not fix HIS problem or THE problem. Thieves are going to be thieves whether you quit or not. Your personal frustration that someone steals your work doesn't negate the fact that it's going to happen regardless. If someone stealing your work and passing it off as their own overshadows your own enjoyment in the game, the legitimate community (like this one) or the creation process, then perhaps you're creating for all of the wrong reasons. If a single person stealing your work means that you're willing to quit on a community that enjoys what you do, then the problem is not with the community. The problem is not with the people disappointed by your exit but instead the problem is with those not willing to do all they can to eliminate the theft in the first place. It lies on the thief and to a lesser but still impactful extent, the person who was stolen from but that quits instead of doing more to fix the system. Him quitting just eliminates HIS enjoyment in creating and sharing which is obviously a thing or this thread wouldn't exist because we'd have no idea who he was.

5. Entitlement? LMFAO, yes, because our time here isn't valuable to us and our support means absolutely nothing. There's no effort on our behalf. It's not our replies that push threads to 30 pages. It's not our downloads that push the top creators to Diamond year in and year out. The only ego I'm seeing around here is coming from you who believe the self-righteous horse shit that you've been pushing since you decided to reply in this thread. The only ego I'm seeing is from you, the guy who expected to get a million pats on the back for defending a creator from simple criticism that you didn't agree with.

6. You did not specify - your first paragraph went after Jeff. Your last sentence in your first reply was :

"It's sad to see people turn on each other and throw tantrums and hissy fits because they don't like how someone chooses to handle their own business."

"People" is plural. Jeff and I were the only ones vocal on the other side of the fence. The rest of the participants in this thread have been pretty neutral in regards to their feedback and responses. It's not much of a stretch to see that your last line included me -- and you're more than welcome to clarify that you weren't if you choose to.

Edit:

Removed 2 comments that were inappropriate. I stepped over the line and if you read it, I apologize.

Edited June 16, 2018 by cdiebold1