No body morphing??

[fufu ÷]

I'm assuming that the reason height is now limited is due to the selectable body parts only being able to stretch a certain amount before becoming an issue of some form. Which in itself brings up the question of why they thought this new system was an upgrade when it brought with it so many limitations - more so than the last system.

My enthusiasm has been wiped out for this game.

[RaddogX]

I'm not usually one to comment, but with everyone's excitement being killed, I feel like I have to share some of my thoughts and realizations about the preset body types and parts.

At first, much like everyone else, I was extremely disappointed. With sliders we had nearly infinite body shapes and now they have taken that away.

There's 2 main themes of why this is upsetting.

1. Why would they do this?"

and  

2. This is severely limiting what we can do.

After I had some time to think I realized the answer to 1 is most likely that they made the change to fix something or free up resources to provide something new  like the face sliders. So that lessened the blow a tiny bit, but still it's gonna suck because we are gonna be sooooo limited by the preset body types....right?

Right?

Actually, maybe not!

I started to think about character creation in past games, both wrestling and non-wrestling, and what options they did and didn't have, and realized we have a lot more options then it appears when you think about the combo and mix and match possibilities. 

Using a combination lock as an example, all it takes is 3 options with 10 choices to get 1000 possibilities.  

I went back and re-watched ViciousPrism's Caw mode vid and calculated the different part combinations and we will have something like 1,108,546,560 possible body shapes. (That number is assuming that back, shoulders, arms and thighs all have at least 5 options, as he didn't check those. Could be less, could be more)

While 1,108,546,560 is not infinite, it's WAY more variety than I think a lot of people are picturing, so I don't think the body shapes will be a s big as a limitation as it appears at first look. 

While I still have my worries how well it will work in practice, in theory it could be the start of something great, if for example, 2k18 doubles the pieces available for each body part and adds in length adjustment per part, there is a real possibility that this system could be better than having sliders.

 

tl;dr There will be around 1,108,546,560 different body possibilities using the preset parts, it might not be as bad as we thought.

Edited October 10, 2016 by RaddogX
typo

[fufu ÷]

I'm not usually one to comment, but with everyone's excitement being killed, I feel like I have to share some of my thoughts and realizations about the preset body types and parts.

At first, much like everyone else, I was extremely disappointed. With sliders we had nearly infinite body shapes and now they have taken that away.

There's 2 main themes of why this is upsetting.

1. Why would they do this?"

and  

2. This is severely limiting what we can do.

After I had some time to think I realized the answer to 1 is most likely that they made the change to fix something or free up resources to provide something new  like the face sliders. So that lessened the blow a tiny bit, but still it's gonna suck because we are gonna be sooooo limited by the preset body types....right?

Right?

Actually, maybe not!

I started to think about character creation in past games, both wrestling and non-wrestling, and what options they did and didn't have, and realized we have a lot more options then it appears when you think about the combo and mix and match possibilities. 

Using a combination lock as an example, all it takes is 3 options with 10 choices to get 1000 possibilities.  

I went back and re-watched ViciousPrism's Caw mode vid and calculated the different part combinations and we will have something like 1,108,546,560 possible body shapes. (That number is assuming that back, shoulders, arms and thighs all have at least 5 options, as he didn't check those. Could be less, could be more)

While 1,108,546,560 is not infinite, it's WAY more variety than I think a lot of people are picturing, so I don't think the body shapes will be a s big as a limitation as it appears at first look. 

While I still have my worries how well it will work in practice, in theory it could be the start of something great, if for example, 2k18 doubles the pieces available for each body part and adds in length adjustment per part, there is a real possibility that this system could be better than having sliders.

 

tl;dr There will be around 1,108,546,560 different body possibilities using the preset parts, it might not be as bad as we thought.

In theory, that sounds good, but having a fat guys ass on a skinny runts body isn't really the best combination. At the end of the day, unless you're creating original CAWs, being severely limited to each part makes it hard to replicate a real wrestlers form to the highest degree of accuracy. That doesn't even mention the height issue.

[Replicant13]

tl;dr There will be around 1,108,546,560 different body possibilities using the preset parts, it might not be as bad as we thought.

I'm glad somebody else did the math as I was curious what the exact number of possibilities would be lol.

But here's the thing...

With the slider format, there were billions (or more?) possible body morphs.  You had your base morph that went to 100 in 4 directions.  From there, there were 20-25 individual body parts that could be manipulated using another scale of -100 to +100. 

If you throw in the height min/maximum from last year, the number of possible morphs goes up even more.

Now I can't speak for everyone, but I think a lot of us were expecting something close to the same slider system we had in 2K16, with possibly new sliders added for neck thickness, arm/leg/torso length, etc.  I mean they didn't even add templates for any of those; in fact it seems like we lost the ability to edit hips and forearms.  Not like anyone gives a fuck, but we can't accurately make someone like Paul Orndorff, whose right arm was noticeably smaller than his left. 

Plus like I said in the other thread, it costs us a layer for each part used.  That may not seem like a big deal to everyone, but there are some CAWs that NEED the max amount of layers if you want to do anything decent.

[XHP Kayne]

I'm not usually one to comment, but with everyone's excitement being killed, I feel like I have to share some of my thoughts and realizations about the preset body types and parts.

At first, much like everyone else, I was extremely disappointed. With sliders we had nearly infinite body shapes and now they have taken that away.

There's 2 main themes of why this is upsetting.

1. Why would they do this?"

and  

2. This is severely limiting what we can do.

After I had some time to think I realized the answer to 1 is most likely that they made the change to fix something or free up resources to provide something new  like the face sliders. So that lessened the blow a tiny bit, but still it's gonna suck because we are gonna be sooooo limited by the preset body types....right?

Right?

Actually, maybe not!

I started to think about character creation in past games, both wrestling and non-wrestling, and what options they did and didn't have, and realized we have a lot more options then it appears when you think about the combo and mix and match possibilities. 

Using a combination lock as an example, all it takes is 3 options with 10 choices to get 1000 possibilities.  

I went back and re-watched ViciousPrism's Caw mode vid and calculated the different part combinations and we will have something like 1,108,546,560 possible body shapes. (That number is assuming that back, shoulders, arms and thighs all have at least 5 options, as he didn't check those. Could be less, could be more)

While 1,108,546,560 is not infinite, it's WAY more variety than I think a lot of people are picturing, so I don't think the body shapes will be a s big as a limitation as it appears at first look. 

While I still have my worries how well it will work in practice, in theory it could be the start of something great, if for example, 2k18 doubles the pieces available for each body part and adds in length adjustment per part, there is a real possibility that this system could be better than having sliders.

 

tl;dr There will be around 1,108,546,560 different body possibilities using the preset parts, it might not be as bad as we thought.

seriously....go work for a company as their leading PR man. 

that was an amazing spin of some grade A BS.

 

not that I'm convinced or anything....but still an amazing job at PR work. some of the finest.

[RaddogX]

 

In theory, that sounds good, but having a fat guys ass on a skinny runts body isn't really the best combination. At the end of the day, unless you're creating original CAWs, being severely limited to each part makes it hard to replicate a real wrestlers form to the highest degree of accuracy. That doesn't even mention the height issue.

 

I'm glad somebody else did the math as I was curious what the exact number of possibilities would be lol.

But here's the thing...

With the slider format, there were billions (or more?) possible body morphs.  You had your base morph that went to 100 in 4 directions.  From there, there were 20-25 individual body parts that could be manipulated using another scale of -100 to +100. 

If you throw in the height min/maximum from last year, the number of possible morphs goes up even more.

Now I can't speak for everyone, but I think a lot of us were expecting something close to the same slider system we had in 2K16, with possibly new sliders added for neck thickness, arm/leg/torso length, etc.  I mean they didn't even add templates for any of those; in fact it seems like we lost the ability to edit hips and forearms.  Not like anyone gives a fuck, but we can't accurately make someone like Paul Orndorff, whose right arm was noticeably smaller than his left. 

Plus like I said in the other thread, it costs us a layer for each part used.  That may not seem like a big deal to everyone, but there are some CAWs that NEED the max amount of layers if you want to do anything decent.

 

 

You both make great points. It's very true that this will be WAY less options than the nearly infinite body shapes available last with sliders, and I have no doubt that with the current options some peoples body types will be flat out impossible. My Intention was to simply point out that it's not completely hopeless, it appears that quite a few wrestlers can at least be done close enough to be acceptable.  The height issue REALLY sucks and I can only hope it's patched later. 

seriously....go work for a company as their leading PR man. 

that was an amazing spin of some grade A BS.

 

not that I'm convinced or anything....but still an amazing job at PR work. some of the finest.

No attempt at spin here, just sharing my own thought process on the matter. I'm not trying to sell anyone on it, as I'm not sold on it myself, i just have more hope than I did at first. I only was motivated to do the math because I had seen many post around the internet that seem the share the belief that there will be around 10 to 30 bodies possible and I was curious what the total amount really was, and once I saw the actual numbers I thought others might find it useful to know.  I don't like this change, but as a long time gamer I've made do with way less and if its what we are stuck with I see the potential where it can be made better in future games.

[rekka no ryo]

Atleast everyone here doesn't do Scott Steiner math..

[FvzzFvzzFvzz]

I'm not sure if this has been mentioned ... but while body morphing has been all screwed up, we are now able to assign material types to logos + add an emboss to them. In my opinion, thats a huge inclusion. Some of Jericho's old attires are going to look crazy cool with accurate shiny / sparkly bits.

[BHANGRA MAN]

Well think I will wait till the price drops before I get this game if at all too much of a mess

[Cave Waverider]

I'm not sure if this has been mentioned ... but while body morphing has been all screwed up, we are now able to assign material types to logos + add an emboss to them. In my opinion, thats a huge inclusion. Some of Jericho's old attires are going to look crazy cool with accurate shiny / sparkly bits.

If that only worked with custom logos as well.