A Question to all you talented modders out there

[The Nomodder]

Hi,

my name says it all. I'm an absolute noob when it comes to manipulating systems, games, etc. everything you would summarize under the term modding! (As far as software is concerned! )

But there is a question that runs through my mind, and sorry if it has been asked before, but I could not find a topic about it. The question is:

Would it be possible for a talented programmer/modder to "finish" the developers work and fix problems with the AI, or repair something like the messed up order in the name stitching. Stuff like that! Some sort of patch, that could when finalised be downloaded by the thankful community and could be injected in our games via USB?

I thought a question could not hurt, and I would be happy if somebody could enlight me!

Greetings from The Nomodder

[kidsampson]

The resources in terms of team size and knowledge of the original code allows companies to accomplish this, and event hen it's a slow process. As such, I'm sure it's POSSIBLE but I doubt anyone here has the ability to do it alone, even though they may have access to the software tools with which to develop a patch.

What's more likely is that someone may be able to figure out the format of a particular file and change that information, rather than sorting through the mess that's bound to be within the millions and millions of lines of code, including all the legacy stuff that is no longer used but has never been removed.

This is all speculation of course, as I know next to nothing about modding.

[Red Rooster]

Didn't brienj make a AI adjustment for his SVR 2011 program?

Just so you could adjust the sliders beyond what they can normally be set to. Apparently the AI cant be fixed because there is no AI to fix.

[brienj]

Just so you could adjust the sliders beyond what they can normally be set to. Apparently the AI cant be fixed because there is no AI to fix.

There is AI stuff, and certain wrestlers have their own AI. The problem most people have, are the people that play with CAWs all the time, because the CAWs just use a generic one, and why they all play the same. However, if you actually use the in-game wrestlers, you will notice the change in AI. It's not a lot of change, but there is some there.

[kidsampson]

Related to iamnomodders original question, does anyone know of anyone who has actually ever tried to alter the code of the game? I tend to think of hacking and modding as very different than programming or coding. Sure we can manipulate texture files and change input values within an existing framework and file structure, but does anyone know of anyone (with any game) who has gone beyond that approach?

Or do those employed as professional programmers stay away from such hobbyist activities (particularly with wrasslin' games)? And how much knowledge and skill would that take?

[brienj]

Related to iamnomodders original question, does anyone know of anyone who has actually ever tried to alter the code of the game? I tend to think of hacking and modding as very different than programming or coding. Sure we can manipulate texture files and change input values within an existing framework and file structure, but does anyone know of anyone (with any game) who has gone beyond that approach?

Or do those employed as professional programmers stay away from such hobbyist activities (particularly with wrasslin' games)? And how much knowledge and skill would that take?

I've made about 8 or 9 different xex hacks for the game over the years, including some RTE stuff that I haven't released, so yeah, it's been done.

In fact, my SvR2010 xex hack added about 500 or more lines of PPC code to the xex file, so did you totally miss that or something?

Edited January 28, 2013 by brienj

[kidsampson]

Certainly familiar with those. I probably have the most finished version of that hack, as I completed the project you released with hacked movesets for the entire roster; additional pach attires; complete name, height and stat edits; additional custom models; custom trons; etc. Still play it today, on occasion even after everyone moved on. Thanks again for that excellent work.

But of those 8 or 9 xex hacks over the years did any of them modify or fix core gameplay issues (i.e. the lack of two counts, pin glitches, stupid AI, etc.)? Those sorts of issues are what we're asking if it's possible to fix.

[brienj]

Certainly familiar with those. I probably have the most finished version of that hack, as I completed the project you released with hacked movesets for the entire roster; additional pach attires; complete name, height and stat edits; additional custom models; custom trons; etc. Still play it today, on occasion even after everyone moved on. Thanks again for that excellent work.

But of those 8 or 9 xex hacks over the years did any of them modify or fix core gameplay issues (i.e. the lack of two counts, pin glitches, stupid AI, etc.)? Those sorts of issues are what we're asking if it's possible to fix.

I always have two counts, so not sure I could "fix" something that wasn't there. I don't know what you mean by pin glitches, once again, never had any. As far as stupid AI, I haven't seen anything that could really be considered stupid, like the flipping the people around in the corners which is present in SvR2010. The AI may not do exactly as I wish, but it's never done anything stupid.

[OverTheEdge]

Yeah, the only real problem I've encountered with the AI this year is how often they try and go for the OMG spots. Whether it's constantly trying to get you out of the ring for the barricade spot or, the worst offender for me, them always leaving the ring to remove the top of the commentary table. Hell, I've even had managers do the latter. But other than that, I really have no complaints.

[kidsampson]

I always have two counts, so not sure I could "fix" something that wasn't there. I don't know what you mean by pin glitches, once again, never had any. As far as stupid AI, I haven't seen anything that could really be considered stupid, like the flipping the people around in the corners which is present in SvR2010. The AI may not do exactly as I wish, but it's never done anything stupid.

Not necessarily referring to WWE 13, but the series as a whole (i.e. pin glitch in 2011, AI issues throughout, even this year's is not aggressive enough or doesn't know when to use finishers or go for pins). There have always been gameplay issues. It's what everyone on every board has complained about every year - "why do they focus on presentation when the gameplay is broken!?" My guess was if these gameplay issues could have been fixed they would have been, but it's beyond anyone's ability (outside of a team of senior programmers) to sort them out. It's not like any modders wouldn't have noticed there have been issues all along.

And I honestly find it hard to believe that you're satisfied with the game as is, but if so, more power to you. Used to be you were the most critical of these games, always comparing them to King of Colosseum 2, but suddenly they're not broken anymore? Surely we haven't already started the pardoning and revisionist history with THQ.

[brienj]

Not necessarily referring to WWE 13, but the series as a whole (i.e. pin glitch in 2011, AI issues throughout, even this year's is not aggressive enough or doesn't know when to use finishers or go for pins). There have always been gameplay issues. It's what everyone on every board has complained about every year - "why do they focus on presentation when the gameplay is broken!?" My guess was if these gameplay issues could have been fixed they would have been, but it's beyond anyone's ability (outside of a team of senior programmers) to sort them out. It's not like any modders wouldn't have noticed there have been issues all along.

And I honestly find it hard to believe that you're satisfied with the game as is, but if so, more power to you. Used to be you were the most critical of these games, always comparing them to King of Colosseum 2, but suddenly they're not broken anymore? Surely we haven't already started the pardoning and revisionist history with THQ.

I don't play the older games, like SvR2011, so I really don't care if they are broken or not, and I'm not going to worry about fixing them. I am not saying WWE13 is the best game ever, but it certainly is the best in the series, and I am working on making IT better, and my first step is model modifications, then adding models as DLC, and THEN I can start worrying about the core gameplay, of which my Universe Editor is already in the early stages to help with that ...

I also have a small understanding of the animation files, and my work on the models will help towards eventually modifying the animations. I do things that I do, in the order I do them, for a reason. If I worked on gameplay right out of the box, then you would be stuck with the in-game wrestlers and CAWs until that was totally fixed, which could take months, if not longer. So the gameplay, although the most important is being done last, so I have the framework to be able to even implement the gameplay fixes. I found a ton of files that deal with gameplay, and slowly putting all the pieces to the puzzle together. I am so sick and tired of modders that put the cart before the horse ...

But if anyone expects me to work on the older games, it's just never going to happen, and I thank God that my PAC Archiver won't make working pac files for pre-2010 games.

Edited January 29, 2013 by brienj

[kidsampson]

Now that's the answer we've been getting at. And I obviously don't expect you to go backwards and I know you've always got one more project on the horizon. Just keep doing what you're doing. And I agree, as far as options go and overall completeness, WWE 13 is the best in the series (but the 2010 hack still has the best roster and movesets).

I just know WWE 13 could be improved and am always disappointed that they don't move these games further along year after year in the areas that matter. Good to know you've found files dealing with the gameplay though.

[brienj]

Now that's the answer we've been getting at. And I obviously don't expect you to go backwards and I know you've always got one more project on the horizon. Just keep doing what you're doing. And I agree, as far as options go and overall completeness, WWE 13 is the best in the series (but the 2010 hack still has the best roster and movesets).

I just know WWE 13 could be improved and am always disappointed that they don't move these games further along year after year in the areas that matter. Good to know you've found files dealing with the gameplay though.

That's why I finally made the PAC Archiver program, so all these files can be modded. I was hoping people that were making pac file programs would eventually make a program like I did, so I could focus on doing other things, but since it never happened, I just did it myself. But now, the game is WIDE open. I can modify ANY pac file in the game AND not even have to change the frickin' arc files. So not only can a bunch of mods be made, but they are totally idiot proof. You just drop the file in the folder and go on your way.

[brienj]

I didn't say it was broken I just simply put the idea out there.

And I can implement the sliders again, but I thought that Arjun or Hacker-T already did it. If not, I can tell them how to do it, and they can just add it to their tools. But yeah, the sliders would do some crazy things and changed the gameplay dramatically, especially when you adjusted the ones you can't normally adjust in the game.

[Spyder78]

That's why I finally made the PAC Archiver program, so all these files can be modded. I was hoping people that were making pac file programs would eventually make a program like I did, so I could focus on doing other things, but since it never happened, I just did it myself. But now, the game is WIDE open. I can modify ANY pac file in the game AND not even have to change the frickin' arc files. So not only can a bunch of mods be made, but they are totally idiot proof. You just drop the file in the folder and go on your way.

You are so pulling me back to the 360 one day at a time lol

[brienj]

Maybe you should add that to your program?

I'd rather Arjun or Hacker-T did it in their programs, as they do more to the actual save than mine. Mine is mainly for the CAS files. I can easily help them if they can't figure it out, but I thought they already did.

[kidsampson]

Pur3Raffex has sorted out the sliders and attributes, but his tool isn't free. Definitely looking forward to what comes out of this new tool brien has been working on. Just in case we skip this year's release, maybe someone will use it to do a complete visual overhaul of the game, splash screen, and text to release WWE 14.