Doctor Who: The End Of Time

[Smacktalks]

Anyone seen the first part of this yet?

I wasn't all that keen on it for the first half of the episode, but then I started to get into it half way. The first half just seemed a bit too rushed.

Anyway, i've just watched it back and i'm liking it a lot more now, can't wait for the final part on New Years Day!

[Aero]

watched twice, disappointed twice, will miss tennant but is glad that russel t davis and all his shit episdoes are fucking the hell off, steve moffat has always wrote the better, darker episodes and i'm glad he's soon to be in charge, just hope this matt fella isnt shit... tennant, to me, is THEE doctor!!!!!

[jitz]

The End of Time part 1 was a shit load better than Planet of the Dead, and Waters of Mars. For what was meant to be the four final specials for this chapter of the Doctor, they were essentially normal episodes and not very good ones at that.

I didn't like how the last Master story turned out last time, with the whole happy go lucky, world thinking of the Doctor to bring him back. It screamed Russell T Davies, and was the height of the lame fall backs he had been using throughout season 3 and would continue to use in his episodes onwards. So I like that he's brought back here to have a (hopefully) better ending.

The pacing was a little bit strange in EoT, like there's ten minutes sitting on the cutting room floor. The Doctor just kept on teleporting backwards and forwards from that junkyard location, and instantly finding The Master in it. It was weird how The Master wasn't even hiding. Oh well, atleast we will get some resolution to the Time Lord shit they started in the first episode. I can picture Russell T Davies, in his infinite hippy wisdom, teaming the Doctor and the Master up to take on the Time Lords and stop their mission to destroy time itself.

On a side note, I don't understand why they keep focusing on the Doctor fearing death so much in the past few episodes, like he's afraid he's not going to regenerate. He never has been before, infact if anything he's had a carefree attitude about it. Now a few words from bit part characters and he's fearing he really is going to die and we have to keep hearing about it like we're supposed to care. We already know who the fuck the next Doctor is, they aired a fucking special on it, everyone knows David Tennant will die and regenerate and the end of the next special. They should just concentrate on telling the story, not pleading emotions that the audience simply don't have for the situation - we know how it ends already.

Oh and Aero, I agree that Tennant plays a great Doctor, but he definitely plays a happy Doctor much better than he plays this sad, miserable one. He doesn't look comfortable at all doing some of these "sad" scenes.

[DRAVEN]

The idear that he dont want to die is not about him not regenerating its about the fact that what his is will die and the regen will not be the same every doctor has a different personality and he likes how he is they made a point in saying how much the doctor has changed since meeting rose donna and martha.. thats what the doctor is afraid of, On another note Its a open ended death anyways, he can come back for a special as David Tennant has a double with rose so he could return...

I personaly dont want hi to leave as hes a bril doctor.. the 11th doctor has alot to live up to...

[Chillalex]

the next doctor looks like a right tool.

I watched this, i dont know, didn't really hook me. Like chris said, it felt a little disjointed.

Maybe it'll all make sense in the second half, though.

that said, I did find the other christmas specials to be much better

[jitz]

The idear that he dont want to die is not about him not regenerating its about the fact that what his is will die and the regen will not be the same every doctor has a different personality and he likes how he is they made a point in saying how much the doctor has changed since meeting rose donna and martha.. thats what the doctor is afraid of, On another note Its a open ended death anyways, he can come back for a special as David Tennant has a double with rose so he could return...

Yeah, I just don't understand why he feels so differently about it this time. The script says it's because he's changed because of the companions he's had in the past few years, but that's because that's just convenient. He hasn't changed at all! He still walks, talks, and acts the exact same way as he did from his first episode. At the end of the day, he doesn't lose his memories of the people he's met. And he's had a lot of companions before these lot, this is only a big deal because Russell T Davies bad script says it is.

[Smacktalks]

Yeah, the jumps were the worst part.

One minute he's chasing The Master, then he gets stopped and decides to go with Wilfred after he's just raced back to try and find The Master. Then after speaking to Wilfred, he's suddenly in the Junkyard again walking up to The Master.

As for the fear of dying, has he ever faced death/regeneration before? i.e. knowing it is going to happen soon?

I'm interested to see the return of The Timelords, although I'm wondering more of how there is suddenly thousands of them, when Tennant was supposed to be the last and has always made such a big thing of it. I just hope Russell T Davies hasn't rewrote the whole reason the Timelords disapeared so he can have a big send off himself, ruining it in the process.

[DRAVEN]

I agree it would of been better if Russell T Davies hadnt been involved..

I doctor is never really the same after he regenerates this is because no New doctor totally act the same as the previous

so their are changes in the doctors personality..

Christopher Eccleston,

Personality

As a character, the Ninth Doctor is less of a central heroic figure than an enabler, encouraging his companions and other people he meets to act upon their more positive impulses. Those he meets (in particular Captain Jack Harkness) often credit him with making them better people (this is indirectly referenced in the penultimate episode of Series 3 when the Master calls the Doctor "the man who makes people better"). He uses this quality alongside his intelligence and the information he gathers to inspire and allow others to act to end the dangers they face, rarely taking direct action himself (although he tended to find himself incapacitated in some manner at crucial moments, therefore requiring the interventions of others).

The Doctor's ninth incarnation was perhaps the most gritty, and informal, masking a lonely, guilt-ridden and melancholic personality with a jovial, witty, forthright and almost manic exterior. Similar to the Fourth Doctor, he would often make jokes in the face of danger, but then become grim and serious when on his own. Like the Sixth Doctor, he also tended to be fatalistic at times, to the point of near-panic when he and Rose were cornered in "The Unquiet Dead" and he realised that he was going to die (this despite the knowledge that he would probably just regenerate). Despite being impatient with humans, whom he often referred to as "stupid apes" -- and Mickey receiving particular scorn and being dubbed "Mickey the Idiot" -- the Ninth Doctor was far more tactile with, and reliant upon, his human companions than previous incarnations. He was notably both sentimental and emotional, especially where his closest friend, Rose, was concerned, to the point of allowing her to view her parents' wedding and later, her father's last moments

[Aero]

I'm not reading all that! lol.

chris, ur right, all the specials for this year have been shit, which is disappointing because the christmas specials where always pretty good, last years 1, where some ppl thought tennant was gonna bow out and we had morrissy thinkin he was the doctor was a great storyline.

i'm putting all the blame on russel. the opinion that tennant plays a sad doctor very well is a more than fair point, but then thats not in his character, until recently he's always been happy or a bit angry, or regretful but never down on himself, now russel decides to dick about with tennants doctor for his own gain..... and failing, i'll enjoy watching the 2nd half wether its shit or not knowing that there'll be no more from him, especially as tennant wont be the doc in the movie he is trying to pitch (and failing at apparently) which suggests the movie would be utter shit.

as for this new fella matt... i dunno, never liked the thought of chris being the 10th doctor til i saw him in action, then never wanted him to leave... this tennant guy seemed inappropriate then BAM! fuck off chris, david was born for this role, mayb matt will suprise us? ...tho looks wise it feels unlikely lol

[jitz]

Yeah there's always that period of acceptance with a new Doctor, fact is, they've rarely picked a bad one. Syvester McCoy would have to be the standout there, and the series ended with him for well over a decade.

Also Draven's idea that each Doctor has their own personality is utter crap, at the base of it all every actor will play the character how they want within the limits of what the producers want. So going beyond that the idea of what "The Doctor" is has been pretty fixed without a whole lot of leeway to really make any changes as it's the same character and formula and it works. Christopher Eccleson played a Doctor reminiscent of earlier Doctors, particuarly Tom Baker and Jon Pertwee. The story moved along at a faster pace with less standing around and talking (that Tom Baker ate up and nailed) because of the shoft to hour long stories, but the character is largely the same. Especially the anger side to him, that Jon Pertwee had brought to the character, especially when he was exiled on Earth and often rebelled against the UNIT authority and longed to get back into space. It wasn't anything new, it wasn't a Doctor Who revelation, he was still the same character as 15 years beforehand.

David Tennant played a Doctor very similar to Colin Baker. They contemporised the costume as question mark jackets were never in fashion, but his upbeat attitude, and quirky sense of humour is straight from Colin Baker. Infact Tennant's Doctor requires the least explanation, it screams Colin Baker. Tennant is just more talented, and has a better fashion sense. To say he won't ever be the same man again is crap, as he's the same man he was a few regenerations ago.

Matt Smith's Doctor will be a little different because of his young age, which will no doubt be the basis of the character, a concept that is new to the Doctor. Here's a man nearly a thousand years old that looks like a young adult, who would take him seriously? No doubt his character will battle with that, and I think that will be intersting.

As for Paul's question about whether the Doctor has known he was going to die before, the first Doctor died of seemingly old age, guess he didn't see that one coming! Tom Baker's dying words were "It's the end -- but the moment has been prepared for", extending his hand out...to his future self as the Watcher whom had been over looking the events of the serial. For how long Tom Baker knew he was going to die is unclear, but long enough to know it had been prepared for by himself.

So even then David Tennant's Doctor knows he doesn't stay in that form forever, he's seen his future self, and it doesn't look like David Tennant.

[Aero]

i'll be honest, the whole bad wolf thing leading to eccleson's departure was possibly my favorite regeneration (before i realised how awesome tennant was gonna be)... tho thanks to the internet and such, we all knew he was leaving anyways so ruined it a bit there.

on a side note, why do people bother watching soaps? shit acting and the storyline is both told to you and predictable. at least with doctor who you only know when a doctor is leaving (or the odd spoiler about cybermen etc coming back)... soaps are shit

[DRAVEN]

Yeah there's always that period of acceptance with a new Doctor, fact is, they've rarely picked a bad one. Syvester McCoy would have to be the standout there, and the series ended with him for well over a decade.

Also Draven's idea that each Doctor has their own personality is utter crap, at the base of it all every actor will play the character how they want within the limits of what the producers want. So going beyond that the idea of what "The Doctor" is has been pretty fixed without a whole lot of leeway to really make any changes as it's the same character and formula and it works. Christopher Eccleson played a Doctor reminiscent of earlier Doctors, particuarly Tom Baker and Jon Pertwee. The story moved along at a faster pace with less standing around and talking (that Tom Baker ate up and nailed) because of the shoft to hour long stories, but the character is largely the same. Especially the anger side to him, that Jon Pertwee had brought to the character, especially when he was exiled on Earth and often rebelled against the UNIT authority and longed to get back into space. It wasn't anything new, it wasn't a Doctor Who revelation, he was still the same character as 15 years beforehand.

David Tennant played a Doctor very similar to Colin Baker. They contemporised the costume as question mark jackets were never in fashion, but his upbeat attitude, and quirky sense of humour is straight from Colin Baker. Infact Tennant's Doctor requires the least explanation, it screams Colin Baker. Tennant is just more talented, and has a better fashion sense. To say he won't ever be the same man again is crap, as he's the same man he was a few regenerations ago.

Matt Smith's Doctor will be a little different because of his young age, which will no doubt be the basis of the character, a concept that is new to the Doctor. Here's a man nearly a thousand years old that looks like a young adult, who would take him seriously? No doubt his character will battle with that, and I think that will be intersting.

As for Paul's question about whether the Doctor has known he was going to die before, the first Doctor died of seemingly old age, guess he didn't see that one coming! Tom Baker's dying words were "It's the end -- but the moment has been prepared for", extending his hand out...to his future self as the Watcher whom had been over looking the events of the serial. For how long Tom Baker knew he was going to die is unclear, but long enough to know it had been prepared for by himself.

So even then David Tennant's Doctor knows he doesn't stay in that form forever, he's seen his future self, and it doesn't look like David Tennant.

Think we have some crossed wires here as you have just said what I was meaning...

that the character is basicly the same but played differently...

Think I will give up on trying to understand this story and hope for better things from the new doctor

and hope that Russell T Davies has little more to do with it.

[Aero]

russel t davis is done with doctor who after this draven, he's passing the reins (sp?) to steve moffat who has been the better writer in past series anyways, we just have to hope russel hasnt left steve with a mountain to climb with a shitty ending to this series.

[jitz]

I think you'll find he's left with a clean slate, the new series is being labelled as season 1. So much like the restart in 2005, I think it'll be a complete restart with no plot lines continuing over. I think that's what Davies has brought the Time Lords back after he killed them off, Davies didn't want to use Gallifrey and the Time Lords, but Moffat might.

With Steven Moffat writing six episodes, and Chris Chibnall writing two, Richard Curtis (the writer of Blackadder and Mr Bean) writing one, that's nine good episodes. Unfortunately with Gareth Roberts, writer of the god awful "Shakespeare Code" and "The Unicorn and the Wasp" episodes, but also the watchable Planet of the Dead special, that's two probable train wrecks. Hopefully he steers clear of the period pieces, well hopefully the series as a whole steers clear of them because they're the worst episodes.

[DRAVEN]

Just seen the last part and I already dont like the new doctor...

I beleave you are right about it been a new begining of sorts, you will see when you watch it.

I dont want to spoil it for anyone..

[Aero]

to be honest from all we saw of the new doc, he could be grand....

as for the episode, the 1st half from last week was better... thats not good

[Fozy]

So, they've just got him to try act like david tennant? fuck off. What an ugly cunt, oh my god.

[Smacktalks]

I've just finished watching the episode and the Confidential that aired after it and i'm kinda mixed on the episode.

The rest of the post contains spoilers for the second part, so dont click the spoiler button below unless you've seen Part 2.

I didn't quite get the plot behind the Timelords returning, as there seemed to be plot holes all over the place, especially how the Lord Master was able to throw the diamond at the hologram of Earth and have it transported to Earth from inside the void. Surely if he could send a diamond, he could send other things/people in the same way.

As for the fact that they brought them back and then sent them away just as fast, seemed a pretty poor move. For the enormousy of The Timelords, i'd have much rather seen a mini-series that told the story at a slower pace and in greater detail, having them fully return and then The Doctor finding a way to send them back.

When it got to the point that they had been sent back and you were left with the knocking, signaling the end of the 10th Doctor, I kinda liked the way they did it. Bernard Cribbons' character was one of the best characters on the show imo, and seeing him be the one that would cause the Doctor's death worked well for me.

With the whole revisiting his companions part I didn't really like the idea at first, but thinking about it i'm glad they did, as it put some closure in for those characters. I think it was more done for the fans, but it made sense from the way The Doctor had been acting in the lead up to "his death" that he would want to see everyone one last time, seeing how they treated it as a "death" this time.

Then came the regeneration, which seemed a bit over the top with the fire and explosions, etc. I can see why they destroyed part of the Tardis, as they'll probably change the look of it to fit in with the New Doctor, but it seemed over the top as it never happened like that when Christopher Eccelston regenerated or when Tennant started regenerating and sent the energy into his hand in the jar.

With Matt's first scene I didn't really like it all that much, he seemed to be trying to act like Tennant and it didn't fit in with the way that the Doctor was all down prior to it. I would have rather he changed to Matt and then just collapsed.

Overall, I liked it, but it was nowhere near as good over the two episodes as i'd hoped.

Anyway, here's the trailer for the new season.

[Aero]

Spoiler

dude, i'd bet the diamond bit was set in the past during the time war, they where reading the prophacy and trying to bypass the inevitable

[Fozy]

dude, i'd bet the diamond bit was set in the past during the time war, they where reading the prophacy and trying to bypass the inevitable

[jitz]

Yeah they didn't explain that that was in the past and the hologram was a TARDIS. Maybe having the Time War happening in the background with Dalek's flying about would have got the point across a little clearer, instead of either the directorial decision, or maybe budget decision, to have the meeting in a black room where time and space were irrelevant.

It was kinda cool though that the Time Lords had accepted their fate and in the process were prepared to destory time itself in order to remain alive, and it was the Doctor who turned against them and sent them into the time lock. That was the best plot point in the episode...and pretty much the only plot point. The rest was spent trying for that sympathetic shit that I've hated so much. Has Billie Piper had some bad plastic surgery done? She looks awful.

As for Matt Smith, give the guy a break, he was onscreen for all of thirty seconds. Did he seem like David Tennant? Yes. Do I think he will act like David Tennant in the new series? No, given more time to flesh out his character (ie more than thirty seconds) I'm sure the differences will be clear. He's not as ugly as Tennant, what with Tennant's strange bent back teeth. I liked the "I'm a girl" joke, the UK press loved the idea of a girl being the next Doctor.

EDIT - Oh and the violent transformation can be explained by him not wanting to change and trying to hold onto his current self, ofcourse the reason for it was to destroy the interior of the TARDIS for the new series

[Aero]

Spoiler

yeah i liked the logic that the doctor knew exactly what the time lords where up to and explained why he did what he did and why he had to stop them again. sacrificing his own kind to save the universe.

and i have fairly high hopes for matt seriously, just hope the tardis etc doesnt get changed too much, he may not be as good as tennant, he may be better, but i get the impression he wont be terrible all of a sudden and thats good enough for me