Imigrants, blah, blah...

[RingMaster2001]

Would the orange line exist though? You think not, I think it would for the reason I already posted. I have no proof to say it would because it hasn't happened. I can't even think what numbers I'd throw out to support it, it's a big call, I can't even begin to think of imaginary 15% of mystery numbers.

I gave you the link to that 15% I used. You chose not to read it. Things are not imaginary just because yo chose not to read them.

It was based purely on opinion, hence why it's not accompanied by any numbers, no percentages, no graphs (I only made it afterwards to show the irrelevance of the blue line in my statement). I simply said that if you got rid of all the immigrants tomorrow, prices would escalate. You said they already are and already had (the blue line), and I drew a graph to demonstrate how they'd increase higher than they already are. You disagreed. That's fine. I don't have any numbers, you don't have any numbers (beyond the blue line, which we have already agreed on being irrelevant). I feel we're finally nearing the end here Martin.

Did we agree the blue line was irrelevant? I don't think we did.

I feel like a broken record here.

You said things would rise without immigrants. I pointed to the fact with proof that thy have risen with immigrants. You have alayed nothing factual as I have on that. The Blue Line now appears to only be irrelevant because you haven't got anything to dismiss it.

Lest we forget that you only made that blue line on the rebuttal I made. You didn't even acknowledge the existence of the blue line before I pointed it out.

I have also already said that I didn't want to get into an arguement on qualifications and their worth because it's ridiculous.

That's strange. I didn't want tog et involved with the qualification argument either, as you can see from my post. That was only escalated due to you. I'm glad that you admit you are being ridiculous.

Suffice to say they're there,

That's strange. I didn't once admit they were not there. You went on an 'irrelevant' rant that they were there, despite the fact that I didn't say that, and was merely speculating on their practicality. Something that you have (once again) failed to acknowledge/understand/rebutt.

and they are irrelevant to the comment I made about immigrants....like I said. Yes there's a lot of qualifications out there that are completely pointless

I'm glad we agree on that. Still don't understand your doctor argument as that wasn't even my argument.

but that's the day and age we live in and we all have to deal with it because it's certainly not going to change. Infact, you'll find more and more qualifications are needed in the future. So if you're finding it hard getting a job people, don't be like Martin and argue with the government over the worth of the system, you won't change it.

Yes don't argue with the system! Listen to Chris and accept life, like he accepts many things that go on, on this board for instance (). If the world was full of people like Chris, the Nazis and Communists would have had a much easier life. Then again, would they have existed? We'd probably still have Absolute Monarchies and Emperors in charge.

Your argument there is redundant, as the very ethic of democracy is the ability to challenge the status quo. It's a very utopian world, Chris World, and I'm afraid completely impractical.

Just get the qualification, get them job and live happily ever after. If the job you have your eye on looks favourably on a diploma in citizenship, don't argue on smacktalks about how pointless it is, just get it and you're one step closer to employment.

People will do it. People are doing it. I've done it. Doesn't mean it we don't find it's pointless and want to seek change. That's life Chris.

Like Martin said aswell, not everyone wants to be a doctor or an engineer. Hell I don't want to be one either, it's far too much pressure for me. If you want to work on most building sites though, most places these days require you to have all sorts of first aid, OH&S type qualifications. The immigrants won't have them, so if you do, you're one step closer already! Even being a garbage man would require you to have a truck license. Aha! The immigrants won't have one of those! Score. I have a truck license, EWP license, working at heights, electricians license, dogging and rigging qualifications, first aid, OH&S, Cert IV in Frontline Management, high voltage switching, crane operator license, bobcat license, confined space permit, forklift license....I think that's it. What can an immigrant do? Bake a loaf of bread? So yes, qualifications are required for most jobs, just get them and get paid!

Here's a paragraph that is totally irrelevant. I didn't see where I crossed over the argument for qualifications with the argument with immigrants. Thanks for proving your own irrelevance.

I think that covers everything. So no, maybe incrwasing your intake of immigrants isn't a good idea, I never claimed it was. Maybe decreasing the intake of immigrants for the time being is a good idea, never said it wasn't.

I don't believe I ever said immigrants should be feared, my argument was that we need to greatly reduce our immigrants for the current economic reasons, and also for social reasons (if you want proof of that, I've shown what's happened to the Romanian immigrants in Northern Ireland, if you want further examples, simply type in the Brixton Riots and the Bradford Riots into Google.).

As that was my argument, could you please tell what was the entire point in your argument? Or was it simply irrelevant?

[Joe =/]

Damn guys, any objections if I make a sticky topic warning people not to argue with either of you two ?

[jitz]

Well this is easy because Iv'e already agreed to most of what you've just said.

For the 15%, I was just making a statement that the actual figure has never been used here. It might be on that page, I don't now, I don't really care. I'm just saying that in that arguement, I don't know what percentages of what I'd throw around to support my claim, because it's purely hypothetical. I don't want it based on fact, because that would mean you have deported all your refugees. An impossible situation, it was a hypothetical to promote thinking of their worth.

I didn't mention the blue line before because like I said in my last post, i didn't think I would need to. I apparently did, so I did. I never said things weren't bad with refugees now, the blue line shows prices going up forever. I felt like you weren't taking into account things like inflation, so I mentioned it. It's irrelevant for sure, I was just explaining reasons for why the blue line goes up forever and will always continue to, with immigrants or not. The blue line is irrelevant to my hypothesis on deporting all immigrants, I made a statement that your prices would increase, cause more poverty, famine and unemployement. You said they already were, I drew a graph to display how I meant increases on top of the ones you mentioned that i didn't feel needed to be mentioned.

I made a statement that if you're finding it hard to get a job, get some qualifications behind you. You said that there were too many. I said pick one that's relevant to the job you want and get it. You said the system sucks. I said forget argueing with the system, just do it. Much like your immigrant situation, by the time you can do anything to put a solution in place, the problem will be already gone. A lot of qualifications are bereaucratic red tape, but by the time you've argued with the government for years that they're ridiculous and pointless and had some of them abolished, you will have been unemployed for two years, you'll be thin from starvation, and you'll be calling newspaper your bed. In a year or so, when the world is fine and dandy again and the jobs start coming back that you don't need qualifications for, you won't need to argue it. You'll have a job, and no longer care about what qualifications are needed for other jobs. Just get on with it, stop procrastinating and get some qualifications. Make life easier for yourself.

You've compared getting qualifications to Nazis and communists, I like your creativity.

I don't believe I ever said immigrants should be feared, my argument was that we need to greatly reduce our immigrants for the current economic reasons, and also for social reasons (if you want proof of that, I've shown what's happened to the Romanian immigrants in Northern Ireland, if you want further examples, simply type in the Brixton Riots and the Bradford Riots into Google.).

I didn't claim you feared them, it seems your country as a whole does though. You probably do need to lower your immigrant intake, I believe this is the third time I've said this, I haven't disagreed with you on that. I still think my original post, that you took exception to, still stands though. You're persecuting immigrants as a scape goat for an entire country's problems. They don't deserve that. They aren't to blame. If you want to lower the number of immigrants as a solution to job shortages, rally that cause. I just think that by the time you can get it done, the problem won't be around anymore. For the time being, if people are struggling to get a job because they're competing with immigrants, maybe their time is better spent in a classroom than on the streets rioting.

[RingMaster2001]

Well this is easy because Iv'e already agreed to most of what you've just said.

For the 15%, I was just making a statement that the actual figure has never been used here. It might be on that page, I don't now, I don't really care. I'm just saying that in that arguement, I don't know what percentages of what I'd throw around to support my claim, because it's purely hypothetical.

Indeed. But you can't solve problems using hypothetical situations.

I didn't mention the blue line before because like I said in my last post, i didn't think I would need to. I apparently did, so I did. I never said things weren't bad with refugees now, the blue line shows prices going up forever. I felt like you weren't taking into account things like inflation, so I mentioned it. It's irrelevant for sure, I was just explaining reasons for why the blue line goes up forever and will always continue to, with immigrants or not. The blue line is irrelevant to my hypothesis on deporting all immigrants, I made a statement that your prices would increase, cause more poverty, famine and unemployement. You said they already were, I drew a graph to display how I meant increases on top of the ones you mentioned that i didn't feel needed to be mentioned.

Whilst that is true that the blue line will continue to go up forever because inflation; the gradient which it is going at the moment (nor has been for a while, and will continue) is not related to inflation. So whilst you are correct by saying the blue line will always go up; you are wrong to imply that the inclination it is set at is fine.

I made a statement that if you're finding it hard to get a job, get some qualifications behind you. You said that there were too many. I said pick one that's relevant to the job you want and get it. You said the system sucks. I said forget argueing with the system, just do it. Much like your immigrant situation, by the time you can do anything to put a solution in place, the problem will be already gone.

Such as.....how?

A lot of qualifications are bereaucratic red tape, but by the time you've argued with the government for years that they're ridiculous and pointless and had some of them abolished, you will have been unemployed for two years, you'll be thin from starvation, and you'll be calling newspaper your bed.

They won't have abolished them without protest from the people, otherwise they'll think we like it. That's how politics works. They didn't abolish the poll tax until we protested to it. The same with inheritance tax, the Gurkhas being granted stay in England (after the government thought it was a good idea to ban them) etc.

In a year or so, when the world is fine and dandy again and the jobs start coming back that you don't need qualifications for, you won't need to argue it. You'll have a job, and no longer care about what qualifications are needed for other jobs. Just get on with it, stop procrastinating and get some qualifications. Make life easier for yourself.

That won't happen unless people have a problem with it. Change only happens in government if there is a problem with it.

You've compared getting qualifications to Nazis and communists, I like your creativity.

I try.

I didn't claim you feared them, it seems your country as a whole does though. You probably do need to lower your immigrant intake, I believe this is the third time I've said this, I haven't disagreed with you on that.

And this will be the third time I've acknowledged it. I don't know why you are repeating yourself.

I still think my original post, that you took exception to, still stands though. You're persecuting immigrants as a scape goat for an entire country's problems.

No, I blame the Labour Party for the UK's problems. It's just that there is a huge social and economic stigma attatched to immigrants at the moment which is causing massive problems. It's not fair on them to be persecuted; you're right, so them being here isn't doing them favours in the social climate (see Northern Ireland).